Gender: Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 2136 Status: User
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject:
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
So yeah, basically, people wearing seatbelts are more likely to cause crashes, I guess, and the numbers say that seat belt legislation doesn't help much. See, this is the kind of stuff you guys should be digging up, not "oh no, personal freedoms" and crap.
I don't see exactly how "this law is ineffective" really measures up to "this law is unconstitutional", in terms of importance.
Rocky Sullivan wrote:
I'm really fascinated just by hearing about the driving laws in Troy's native Michigan, a state I plan on retiring in one day!
I will be the first to point out that I am not a native Michigander. I was born and raised in the in-general-more-awesome state of Wisconsin.
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
By all means, do it in your smokeasies. At least the people breathing in your smoke there would be ... wanting to breathe it in.
Haha, those exist. It's called a bar, and they're about the only business that allows smoking in the first place. I mean, let's get real. Even without asinine smoking bans, only a handful of businesses allow smoking on the premises in the first place. Bars, a strong minority of restaurants, and hotels (in designated rooms).
So, when a business owner is left to make their own smoking policy for their establishment, very few allow smoking in the first place... and a smoking ban just takes away their ability choose how to run their business.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject:
dodger wrote:
I don't see exactly how "this law is ineffective" really measures up to "this law is unconstitutional", in terms of importance.
If the law protected people other than the idiot who didn't wear the seat belt, then it'd be perfectly constitutional. But it doesn't, according to the numbers.
dodger wrote:
It's called a bar, and they're about the only business that allows smoking in the first place. I mean, let's get real. Even without asinine smoking bans, only a handful of businesses allow smoking on the premises in the first place. Bars, a strong minority of restaurants, and hotels (in designated rooms).
In your part of the country. In my part of the country, almost all restaurants are smoking establishments. You can fight to the death to defend the right to destroy yourself and whatever, but you have no right to breathe smoke in my face. There are no redeeming factors to smoking. And restaurants wouldn't lose any business to smokers if smoking was illegal period, now would they? _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 685 Status: User
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:25 am Post subject:
There's no reason why your dirty smoking habit should affect me in any way.
I shouldn't have to go to a restaurant and worry I'll get the booth next to the smoking section. There's no reason that I should have to wait longer to be seated because the non-smoking area is full and the smoking section has empty tables.
Gender: Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 1843 Status: Moderator
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject:
I'll always wear a seatbelt, and I'll always put on a motorcycle helmet for a motorcycle or a moped, but I'm still not sold on the effectiveness of wearing a bicycle helmet. The only biking I do is in urban settings, not trail riding. If I get hit by a car, I'm fucked regardless of a piece of styrofoam and plastic sitting on my head.
Gender: Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 24 Status: User Location: Cardiff, wishing I was back in WA :(
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:
Mikes! wrote:
If I get hit by a car, I'm *bleep* regardless of a piece of styrofoam and plastic sitting on my head.
About 10 or so years ago, I was going down a hill and lost control at the bottom (the road was curved in an S shaped fashion) skidded horizontally over the 4 foot of grass at the edge of the road and came to an "quick" stop when I went head first into a concrete wall (which I assume was placed there for such occurances )
Long story short, I'm still here, though the helmet had to go in the bin after it got split in two from the impact (though how much of an injury I would have sustained not wearing said life-preserver is another matter)
Gender: Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3191 Status: User
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject:
Sharp, did you even read the link that Mikes posted?
I haven't been wearing a helmet while biking this summer, but I've only gone down non-major roads, still on concrete though. I'll probably continue to be an urban rider, trail riding doesn't appeal to me. I know I don't have the skills to ride on major roads, helmet or no helmet. Bike safety is more than that, the FAQ at least has that point down solid. _________________
Gender: Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 1843 Status: Moderator
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject:
I'm not going to argue over the anecdote Cardiff posted. If it worked out for you, fine, but it still doesn't compel me to wear a helmet or call for the compulsory wearing bike helmets.
(I do want to nitpick at that last remark about windshield glass. Windshield glass is usually that good ol' safety glass variety, which means if I went though a window, it wouldn't be as all shattery and sharp.)
Compulsory helmet laws are documented to reduce the number of cyclists in the jurisdiction, which is something I definitely don't support. Also to be considered is that while a helmet can protect in brain trauma cases, those aren't as prevalent in bike crashes, and overall, bicycle injuries statistically seem to be no higher nor more severe than pedestrian injuries in most countries.
And I'm not gonna lie, helmets are too wonky and cumbersome for me to consider them in a commute. I hate having to carry around anything I can't securely lock to my bike or put in my bag.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject:
one time I flipped over the handlebars going quite fast (caught a pothole and the bike came to a dead stop) and my helmet probably didn't save me from a fractured skull, but it did cradle my head and protect it from all the rocks that scraped up the entire rest of my back.
I don't know exactly how I ended up on my back. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 5942 Status: User
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:
fruiterian wrote:
Sharp, did you even read the link that Mikes posted?
Did you even read what I said? I wasn't just randomly arguing. That link only serves to strengthen my point. While a helmet won't necessarily protect you from a concussion or head trauma, it can, in fact, keep you from getting open wounds on your head.
Gender: Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 24 Status: User Location: Cardiff, wishing I was back in WA :(
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject:
Ok, so maybe the windscreen example wasn't the best I could have come up with - but I'm quite ambivilant (sp?) on the whole "helmets for cyclists" thing - while it did indeed help me, something strapped to the top of my noggin isn't gonna count for much if I got caught under the back wheels of a bus, or got knocked over by a driver who didn't check and recheck his mirrors properly (was going to post a "lovely" youTube link to some of the road safety adverts we get in the UK - but can't find the one I'm looking for)
Problem with urban cycling is that generally you're at the mercy at the driving public - and while most of them are considerate towards cyclists, there's a reason they're called "accidents" (and with 1ton of metal and carbon fiber versus you on a bike, there is generally only one winner)
On a slightly different (but yet still similar) note. You'd think that maybe "forcing" people to wear bright reflective clothing and suchlike would probably cut down on accidents involcing cyclists. Though haivng said that I'm not too sure - if any of you ever come deep into Cornwall in the UK, there is a railway bridge over the main road which no matter of how much reflective signs and even an automatic sign that tells drivers their vehicles are too high to go through said bridge (and points them to another road around the problem area) - people will still drive into the damn thing year after year. _________________ ...but the BBC news theme, sounds like some sort of apocalyptic rave....
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject:
hmm, I was gonna post a youtube link to Monty Python's "The Cycling Tour," but I couldn't be bothered.
So go find it yourself.
I'm just gonna watch it on DVD.
Argument for helmet safety if there ever was one. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
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