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Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: the value of experience

I posted this on another forum of people who didn't know me, but I feel it is necessary to open this discussion who understand me and my situation perhaps a little better.

So here's the story:

You guys know I'm a pretty straight-laced guy. Don't drink, don't do drugs, don't party... and I've always liked that. I also only wanted to have sex with one person. I also never really had any relationships... I was a fat guy in high school, and only lost weight at the end of my senior year... now I'm average, maybe on the skinny side. I had wanted sex to wait until we got married, but when we met at school (a post-high school trade school, from which we both graduated from a couple years ago), I felt that I had really fallen in love, and that it was appropriate for us to have sex, because I would still only want to with her. In accordance with the speed of our relationship (started dating like a week after meeting, moved into an apartment together 7 months later) I proposed to her last Christmas. So, I don't doubt that we should get married. She isn't, like, drop-dead gorgeous, and she can be stupid at times, but I can tell she loves me unquestionably. Unfortunately, it gives me that feeling that I can do whatever and she'll still want to be with me. Well, for a little while now I have begun to feels urges of wanting out of the relationship. Like, we rushed into things, and there could be something better out there. And then I run through what would happen if we did break up. Right now we're living together, and neither of us could support ourselves on our own. And so, the forbiddenness of it makes me check out other girls more and more as time goes on. She would claim that I would flirt with girls and not know it, but I've become more aware of it, and kind of act unnaturally so that I don't flirt with people... and it kind of upsets me that I act unnaturally to make her happy.

Now, the feeling that I came to yesterday was that she really is the girl for me, but that I'm going to be haunted by these wants to experiment that I wasn't able to satisfy by dating other people first. It'd been wearing on me so much that I told her how I felt last night. When she couldn't think of a solution, I suggested that we "open up" our relationship, and allow me at least the chance to try flirting with people. Maybe I'd find out that the girls I'm attracted to aren't into me at all, but maybe I'd hit it off with someone, and inform this girl that I am in a serious relationship but am interested in the possibility of "fooling around" as friends. And it was this that she could not take. She seemed like she could allow me to kiss someone, but never to have sex with someone. She told me that if I did, we couldn't be together ever again. So, We had a very restless night last night, and this morning she told me that "we need to do whatever we need to do". We agreed that if anything ever did happen with someone, I would have to tell her. I think, though, that if it ever did open up to the possibility that I could have sex with someone else, she wouldn't allow me to. Or, she would say that it would mean the end of us.

So, I come to you guys to ask for your thoughts. Am I crazy? Do I make sense? Is experience with other people necessary? Is it plausable that I could find a girl who would agree to "fooling around" as friends, knowing that I am still in a serious relationship? What do you think I should do?
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here comes the big ideas again, just like they did before and then,
the morning comes again and they're gone

Icculus · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject:

So wait, now you're open for sex with other people? Even if you don't see yourself married with them?
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Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject:

But to be honest... I don't even know! I'd just like to communicate and connect with girls I find attractive and allow for the possibility that if the situation presented itself, I could consider the opportunity for experience.

Right now, I feel that my urges are hurting our relationship.
_________________
here comes the big ideas again, just like they did before and then,
the morning comes again and they're gone

Otogi-san · gleep glorp Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 5077 Status: User

Open relationships are a bad idea, I think. They may not be as funny as Tobias and Lindsay Funke, but the same problems are likely to result.

If you still want to marry this girl you have to realize that you can't do anything with someone else, because that's what marriage is, really. I know that I don't want to have sex before marriage for basically the same reasons you did(n't?).

I assume that what you're experiencing is probably normal, what with all the people out there that cheat on a regular basis. I suggest you take a long, hard look at your relationship so you can decide what the best course of action to take is.

Icculus · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject:

I think everyone feels that there's better fish out there sometimes. It's a comforting thought after a nasty breakup, but during a relationship it's disturbing. Especially, I would imagine (I'm not planning on getting married), if you're getting/gotten married.

I think that you should meet other people. Just meet. Undoubtedly, at one point, you'll meet someone you think is better, but that just may be a thought. Who knows? I give horrible advice.
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Laurie · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject:

It's most unfortunate you guys moved in together. Quite simply, Ray, you're not ready (nor should you be ready) to be with one person the rest of your life. You need to experience and date other people before you really know what you want. I'm not just talking about sex here, I'm talking about getting to know other women and the enrichment experiencing different people brings to your life.

I hate to be blunt but, this relationship is doomed right this minute. You will not just suddenly be happy and there is no way to see other people and still be in a serious relationship, especially living together. You are now acting unnaturally to make sure you don't appear flirty. You will come to resent that. She will become more clingy as she feels you drift away from her emotionally.

All these truths are evident so the big question is, what do you do?

Is there a possibility of you both moving in with other people? Would it be possible for her to keep the apt. and get a new roommate while you find a new place with a different roommate? The other alternative (impossibly painful) is for you two to agree to break out and just be roommates.

Please understand I don't mean to sound harsh here, but, what you are feeling is natural. It's better to deal with this now than when you are 30 and married with two kids.

possums · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

This is pretty normal except for the fact that you're engaged and in a living situation.

I recommend involving HER in a threesome.

No, no I don't.

Well, just start "fooling around" with other people at first, assuming that doesn't include sex, and see how you feel about it in the moment. You might end up feeling repugnant about yourself and go back to your fiancée. You might not.

These are important decisions you should be making now, and like Laurie says, not later in life.
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Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

I'm afraid to admit that splitting up, if only temporarily, might be a solution. Mainly because, I don't know if either of us could find another place to live. Both of our parents are close to an hour away from where we work, and we don't have many friends that could be possible roomates. We might have to explore this possibility further though... it might be necessary.
_________________
here comes the big ideas again, just like they did before and then,
the morning comes again and they're gone

Sexy_Sakura · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

I agree completely with everything that Laurie said. She's a wise woman.

I think you rushed into things, Ray. It's very natural to feel strongly towards your first love. It's even natural to entertain ideas of marrying that person. I was with Adam, my first boyfriend for 5 and a half years. He was my first, etc etc. We never lived together, but I spent every weekend at his place when he was in Uni (and hence living on his own). We did everything together. We talked about getting married. And then I ran into the exact same prediciment that you are in now. I started to wonder about what it was like to be with another person. Not just sexually, but mentally, etc etc. I also started to flirt with guys, and it was really exciting when they would flirt back. Then I took it too far with one guy...we started to hang out a lot, we kissed...and then one night I slept with him. All while I was still with Adam. I maintained right up until the moment that I slept with this other guy that I was madly in love with Adam.

After it happened, I realized that while I did love Adam (and I still do to this day, despite the fact that he hasn't talked to me in years) I didn't LOVE love him. I didn't love him enough to be completely satisfied in being with JUST him.

If you TRUELY love the one you are with, they are all you think about. Sure, its natural to be attracted to other people, and maybe even WONDER what its like to be with someone else. But you would never seriously entertain the idea, if you truely were in love.

I think you and Alicia (that's her name, right?) need to go on a break, at the very least. You CANNOT be in a relationship and do all this soul searching and experimenting. It is NOT fair to you, and DEFINETLY not fair to her. You both deserve more. If I am being completely honest, I think you should break up. The fact that you are having these feelings is more than enough to signal to me that you are not ready.

Don't feel bad for having these feelings. They are natural. They are a sign that you are not ready for that type of relationship. If I were you, I would go with them. Go your seperate ways. If in a year or so you feel you truely do want NO ONE but her, try to get her back. But right now it's clear that she's not what you truely want.
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Yep.

Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject:

Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject:

I take that back... what SS said.

(Here, you remember Alicia's name, and I can't remember yours Sad

)
_________________
here comes the big ideas again, just like they did before and then,
the morning comes again and they're gone

Sexy_Sakura · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject:

Ha, it's Krista. No worries, sug.

Anyways, I totally know where you are at right now. It's not a good place to be in. But I think, ultimatly, you need to do what is right for you. I honestly don't think that being in this relationship is right for you right now. Not to say that it won't be right for you in a few months time. You just really need some time to think things through, alone. Without the guilt of having a girlfriend on the side. That's no way to live. If you stay with her and try this experimenting thing you're not going to be able to give yourself fully to the new relationship, because you'll feel bad. As bad as it will be to go on a break, or break up, it won't be nearly as bad as cheating. Trust me.
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Yep.

Ray · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject:

You're making sense, Krista. And I've heard and thought a lot of nonsense over the past 24 hours. I'm starting to feel like I should tell her that we need to just take a break - whatever that means. Perhaps it will mean that she has to stay with her parents while I cover all the bills for a month or two. I don't think I can make all the decisions about the future and deal with things like facing her parents right now. But I think that spending some time without her could be the best if not only way to tell if I am in the best situation with her.
_________________
here comes the big ideas again, just like they did before and then,
the morning comes again and they're gone

Sexy_Sakura · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject:

Exactly. I think it is the best, and most fair, thing for both of you. That way you will know for sure. And if you do end up back together, your relationship will be stronger for it. So as hard as it may be to initiate, I definetly think you'll be glad you did in the end.
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Yep.

Senor Cardgage · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject:

your initial post sounds like you were just thinking with your balls and trying to justify it with your brain. Unfortunately she was also thinking with your balls.

Acting unnaturally to make a woman happy is what men do.

As far as experience:

If you have it, you don't need it. If you need it, you don't have it. If you have it, you want more of it. If you have more of it, you don't need less of it. You need it to get it. And you certainly need it to get more of it. But if you've never had any of it. Ever. People just seem to know.
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