Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject:
I agree. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject:
well, what I got out of it is that nowadays, in pursuit of diversity, a lot of people are discriminating against the "majority." This is still bad... hiring should be based on skill, not race/sex. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 872 Status: User
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject:
well... i think they are giving everybody an equal chance because truth be told, black people and hispanics usually live in more deprived areas and they don't have as much resources and ease to study on their work. For example, here in Florida, there is this one neighborhood where a large percent of the population is black and there is a lot of crime, problems, and familiar issues that certainly give the white kids more advantage over them. On the other hand, who is ot say that Billy in South Carolina doesn't have as much problems as these people?
I think that affirmative action should be used towards people's economical/familiar standing and a view into how much they have to go through, instead of the racial one. Of course, that would be too much work and shit, so it's easier to go by race. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with it. Then again, I'm the favored one.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject:
Dead Leaves wrote:
I think that affirmative action should be used towards people's economical/familiar standing and a view into how much they have to go through, instead of the racial one. Of course, that would be too much work and *bleep*, so it's easier to go by race. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with it. Then again, I'm the favored one.
but the bottom line is the ability of the person. It's too bad that the person has a bad economic or familiar standing, but they won't perform as well as the other people in the job, so I don't see why they should get the job.
I say this coming from a pretty decent economic and familiar background, though.
I mean... if ability is no different, I have no problem with a company favoring poorer people. Heck, that's quite nice of them. But if one white male has a better ability to do a job than one hispanic male, then the white male should get the job.
On the flip side, if one asian female has a better ability to to that job than that white male, then the asian female should get the job. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 872 Status: User
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject:
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
Dead Leaves wrote:
I think that affirmative action should be used towards people's economical/familiar standing and a view into how much they have to go through, instead of the racial one. Of course, that would be too much work and *bleep*, so it's easier to go by race. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with it. Then again, I'm the favored one.
but the bottom line is the ability of the person. It's too bad that the person has a bad economic or familiar standing, but they won't perform as well as the other people in the job, so I don't see why they should get the job.
I say this coming from a pretty decent economic and familiar background, though.
I mean... if ability is no different, I have no problem with a company favoring poorer people. Heck, that's quite nice of them. But if one white male has a better ability to do a job than one hispanic male, then the white male should get the job.
On the flip side, if one asian female has a better ability to to that job than that white male, then the asian female should get the job.
That's the way it should be, but it isn't. You can't have a bunch of people from one race unemployed or else they might strike (not like it does anything anyways, but it looks bad). In fact, I think that there is some sort of law or something that mandates that you have to have a certain amount of percentage of people from some race in the employment team.
Gender: Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3191 Status: User
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject:
When it comes to affirmative action, I remember thinking back in the early years of high school that it was wrong, that things should be based on skill and ability rather than anything else. (I didn't put down race in any of my application this year, and I still twitch in my head when a form requires me to put it down. It's not as if you can't tell I'm lily white from my name.) But now, affrimative action from an economic standpoint does make sense to me. Those who are stuck in the poorest neighborhoods are the ones who would need the lift that college would give you into a decent profession. And, unfortunately, many of these neighborhoods do consist of minorities.
this article (well, an editorial) I read a while ago was interesting. Sure, it was the times but it isn't typically Times-y: it's suggesting that black culture may be encouraging people to become pimps and whatnot instead of higher education. I thought it was an interesting read when I first read it, but it's archived now. If someone has TimesSelect and wants to copy/paste the thing, I wouldn't mind reading it again either.
I know where I live diversity is a part of life: I know Koreans, Chinese, Indians, Hispanics... mind you, a lot of them are rather cliquey and hard to talk to... O_O. Whites are probably just barely the majority at my school, followed by a large Korean population and a lot of Indians too. Denying diversity in more metropolitan areas can be just as bad as being racist all over the place. If you're in the middle of the country and there's one kid in your town that's black that doesn't mean you should shower him with attention for his culture. The majority of the country continues to be white christians, and if you're in an area where that's especially true, you shouldn't deny that either, it's a fact of life. Would there be more adversity to the black kid? Well, sure.
As you may or may not know, I'm half Irish and half Polish (once again, as white as you get--and I got the pale side of both D:) and my parents each know quite a bit about their respective cultures. My dad grew up eating a lot of Polish food, knows a teensy bit of Polish, listens to the polka... that kind of thing. We went to Tenessee when I was little (family friends lived down there at one point) and although I don't remember much, my mom told me recently that no one down there had any clue of their family heritage, they weren't Irish or Polish, they were just Americans. That I don't think is a good thing. I mean, sometimes I wish I grew up in a more interesting culture (potatoes and pierogies don't always cut it for me) but where you're from is a part of diversity too. We're all Americans, but the only ones who are native are the Native Americans (if I call them Indians I get confused D:). It would be weird to me not to know where my ancestors came from. Denying that, like some people do, is also kind of like denying diversity.
Things are what they are. I think we're all the better for living in a diverse society with so many influences from other cultures. I'd rather live in a place where it's like... uh... rainbow sprinkles than plain vanilla (I can't metaphor, I sorry :/). What I'm really trying to get at is diversity exists, but really, it shouldn't always be pointed out. Undoubtedly there's genetic differences in all the different races, and denying that there are different races is pretty damn fucking bad. We exist, for the most part, as a fairly cohesive society. Should we always put our differences in the forefront of what we're doing? No. But we should know what they are, appreciate them for what they are, and don't try to change them. Accepting yourself for who and what you are is essential. We shouldn't give up Christmas trees (and yes, I'm mixing religion with race here, fool--they're kind of similar issues to me, but I'm an idiot) for some muted multicultural celebration. The influence of diversity seems to be more subtle than that, more like a layering process rather than a puzzle. But we can teach ourselves about each other... and some other bullshit like that. Maybe not in classes and regulated, but just by simple observation and sensitivity. And once again, some places are just pure white. Maybe there's a reason they're pure white. Maybe they're not interested in learning about it.
So, is diversity racism? No. Is learning about other cultures racism? No. But is a search to increase diversity a little bit racist? Done in the wrong way, just a little bit.
Man, it's really a ridiculously complicated issue. And this post probably made no sense. You're welcome to pick apart my argument, I know it totally sucks. I know what I mean in my head, but only barely. And it's long. :/ Gah, I've been down here for quite a bit now...
Sorry if you read through all that, really, I'm very sorry. D: _________________
Gender: Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 872 Status: User
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject:
fruiterian wrote:
When it comes to affirmative action, I remember thinking back in the early years of high school that it was wrong, that things should be based on skill and ability rather than anything else. (I didn't put down race in any of my application this year, and I still twitch in my head when a form requires me to put it down. It's not as if you can't tell I'm lily white from my name.) But now, affrimative action from an economic standpoint does make sense to me. Those who are stuck in the poorest neighborhoods are the ones who would need the lift that college would give you into a decent profession. And, unfortunately, many of these neighborhoods do consist of minorities.
this article (well, an editorial) I read a while ago was interesting. Sure, it was the times but it isn't typically Times-y: it's suggesting that black culture may be encouraging people to become pimps and whatnot instead of higher education. I thought it was an interesting read when I first read it, but it's archived now. If someone has TimesSelect and wants to copy/paste the thing, I wouldn't mind reading it again either.
I know where I live diversity is a part of life: I know Koreans, Chinese, Indians, Hispanics... mind you, a lot of them are rather cliquey and hard to talk to... O_O. Whites are probably just barely the majority at my school, followed by a large Korean population and a lot of Indians too. Denying diversity in more metropolitan areas can be just as bad as being racist all over the place. If you're in the middle of the country and there's one kid in your town that's black that doesn't mean you should shower him with attention for his culture. The majority of the country continues to be white christians, and if you're in an area where that's especially true, you shouldn't deny that either, it's a fact of life. Would there be more adversity to the black kid? Well, sure.
As you may or may not know, I'm half Irish and half Polish (once again, as white as you get--and I got the pale side of both D and my parents each know quite a bit about their respective cultures. My dad grew up eating a lot of Polish food, knows a teensy bit of Polish, listens to the polka... that kind of thing. We went to Tenessee when I was little (family friends lived down there at one point) and although I don't remember much, my mom told me recently that no one down there had any clue of their family heritage, they weren't Irish or Polish, they were just Americans. That I don't think is a good thing. I mean, sometimes I wish I grew up in a more interesting culture (potatoes and pierogies don't always cut it for me) but where you're from is a part of diversity too. We're all Americans, but the only ones who are native are the Native Americans (if I call them Indians I get confused D. It would be weird to me not to know where my ancestors came from. Denying that, like some people do, is also kind of like denying diversity.
Things are what they are. I think we're all the better for living in a diverse society with so many influences from other cultures. I'd rather live in a place where it's like... uh... rainbow sprinkles than plain vanilla (I can't metaphor, I sorry :/). What I'm really trying to get at is diversity exists, but really, it shouldn't always be pointed out. Undoubtedly there's genetic differences in all the different races, and denying that there are different races is pretty damn fucking bad. We exist, for the most part, as a fairly cohesive society. Should we always put our differences in the forefront of what we're doing? No. But we should know what they are, appreciate them for what they are, and don't try to change them. Accepting yourself for who and what you are is essential. We shouldn't give up Christmas trees (and yes, I'm mixing religion with race here, fool--they're kind of similar issues to me, but I'm an idiot) for some muted multicultural celebration. The influence of diversity seems to be more subtle than that, more like a layering process rather than a puzzle. But we can teach ourselves about each other... and some other bullshit like that. Maybe not in classes and regulated, but just by simple observation and sensitivity. And once again, some places are just pure white. Maybe there's a reason they're pure white. Maybe they're not interested in learning about it.
So, is diversity racism? No. Is learning about other cultures racism? No. But is a search to increase diversity a little bit racist? Done in the wrong way, just a little bit.
Man, it's really a ridiculously complicated issue. And this post probably made no sense. You're welcome to pick apart my argument, I know it totally sucks. I know what I mean in my head, but only barely. And it's long. :/ Gah, I've been down here for quite a bit now...
Sorry if you read through all that, really, I'm very sorry. D:
I agree with your first paragraph (and that's what I was driving at).
The rest of your argument, however, I have no clue what it was about or how you tried to tie it all in to the issue. It was just rambling to me.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject:
Dead Leaves wrote:
That's the way it should be, but it isn't. You can't have a bunch of people from one race unemployed or else they might strike (not like it does anything anyways, but it looks bad). In fact, I think that there is some sort of law or something that mandates that you have to have a certain amount of percentage of people from some race in the employment team.
And those laws are wrong. We should let diversity happen on its own. It does, as Fru lengthily pointed out. If we force it, we're only worsening the quality of our workforce since we're hiring people for the color of their skin over the content of their character. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 4367 Status: User Location: Look where my hand was.
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject:
I think everyone should have an opportunity. Now, an advantage because of race? No. But we shouldn't discriminate. It's should be on applicable skills rather than HOLY SHIT A MEXI-POLISH-INDIAN-AUSSIE SIGNTHEMUPNOW! If they can't get a job, they should work at a place where less skills are required or more education is needed, build those skills, and then work up to that spot. ITS is gonna have an "OMG NOT A LIBERAL" moment, but I believe everyone should have the opportunity to have a chance at an equally good life style, but that lifestyle shouldn't be handed out to them. _________________
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
and my parents each know quite a bit about their respective cultures. My dad grew up eating a lot of Polish food, knows a teensy bit of Polish, listens to the polka... that kind of thing. We went to Tenessee when I was little (family friends lived down there at one point) and although I don't remember much, my mom told me recently that no one down there had any clue of their family heritage, they weren't Irish or Polish, they were just Americans. That I don't think is a good thing. I mean, sometimes I wish I grew up in a more interesting culture (potatoes and pierogies don't always cut it for me) but where you're from is a part of diversity too. We're all Americans, but the only ones who are native are the Native Americans (if I call them Indians I get confused D
