Gender: Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 685 Status: User
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:49 am Post subject:
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
Look at our country: we've got blacks, whites, asians... every concievable race is represented here. We've got christians, muslims, jews, atheists, buddhists... every concievable religion. Yet for the most part, we all get along... and those who violently refuse to get along get reprimanded and punished.
It wasn't always like this ITS, our country was founded upon anglo-saxon white dominance. Remember how we kinda killed all the Native Americans, took all their land, shoved them into small reservations and gave them booze, guns, and horses to compensate?
Heck the only reason we still aren't like that was because of a long chain of events brought about by the Enlightenment. Gotta remember that social changes didn't even start until the mid-late 1800's, and we STILL aren't done with them today (we're still working on rights for homosexuals, folks). You expect the Middle East to get it all done in the span of 50 years or so? Especially when such ideals would come from their sworn enemies? Yeah, don't think so.
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The Civil War, however, only lasted what, 5 years? That's because we don't foster hate over here. If our culture was like their culture, the USA and the CSA would both still exist and be constantly involved in skirmishes and terrorist attacks trying to annex parts of each other. I'm looking at you, Israel and Palestine.
Oh please. The war didn't stop because we decided to stop it. The South just LOST. The North had a huge industrial, agricultural, and economic advantage over the South. The only reason the South lasted as long as they did was because they were predominantely playing a war of attrition using guerilla tactics. The south was pretty much dead when the war ended.
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Here's a great example for you: The Troubles of Northern Ireland. The catholic Nationalists were fighting the protestant Unionists. This had gone on for generations. However, today, the fighting is no more. Why? Because the Northern Irish people finally woke up and realized it was pointless and terrible to hate and kill each other. They signed an agreement and decided to do things democratically instead.
If only the Middle East and Africa could do that.
Like you said, GENERATIONS. The Catholic versus Protestant conflict in Northern Ireland go as far back as when the Brits took over Northern Ireland centuries ago. The Palestinean versus Israelie conflict in the Middle East has only gone on during the decades since World War II. We've got some time yet for this conflict to go as long as the Northern Ireland one did.
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But of course, they won't. They really seem to be convinced that the only course of action is to systematically conquer and kill anyone who isn't like them.
Quite honestly I think you're generalizing based on what you see in the media. I doubt that the vast majority of the Middle East is like that. Basing your opinion about how the Middle East acts based solely on the acts of Extremists is a mistake. You gotta remember that the media is out there to make money, so they're going to show the worst and best parts of every situation to compete for your eyeballs.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:
ZealousDemon wrote:
Heck the only reason we still aren't like that was because of a long chain of events brought about by the Enlightenment. Gotta remember that social changes didn't even start until the mid-late 1800's, and we STILL aren't done with them today (we're still working on rights for homosexuals, folks). You expect the Middle East to get it all done in the span of 50 years or so? Especially when such ideals would come from their sworn enemies? Yeah, don't think so.
Of course, when the Enlightenment started, the Middle East was still territory of Britain. How come they didn't take part in this enlightenment?
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Like you said, GENERATIONS. The Catholic versus Protestant conflict in Northern Ireland go as far back as when the Brits took over Northern Ireland centuries ago. The Palestinean versus Israelie conflict in the Middle East has only gone on during the decades since World War II. We've got some time yet for this conflict to go as long as the Northern Ireland one did.
Yeah, but the Irish never threatened the world with nukes, nor did they strike targets all over the world... the fighting was contained to Northern Ireland, and so was the hatred. We can't afford to let the Middle East continue to simmer, and if we let Africa simmer, it'll become the next Middle East.
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Quite honestly I think you're generalizing based on what you see in the media. I doubt that the vast majority of the Middle East is like that. Basing your opinion about how the Middle East acts based solely on the acts of Extremists is a mistake.
That's true, I am basing that off of what the media has shown me, but the media has shown me large demonstrations of hatred towards the western world, as well as the large-scale celebrating they did down there when two large buildings collapsed in NYC. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 685 Status: User
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject:
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
Of course, when the Enlightenment started, the Middle East was still territory of Britain. How come they didn't take part in this enlightenment?
Check your facts again. During the Enlightenment in the late 1800's the Middle East was still predominately controlled by the Ottoman Empire. They were attempting to modernize in a European fashion but they were Ottomans nonetheless.
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Yeah, but the Irish never threatened the world with nukes, nor did they strike targets all over the world... the fighting was contained to Northern Ireland, and so was the hatred. We can't afford to let the Middle East continue to simmer, and if we let Africa simmer, it'll become the next Middle East.
We're involved in this mainly because of our support of Israel. We've sent billions of dollars to foreign aid to Israel. The BIGGEST reason the Middle East hates us is because of that very fact. Had we not sent billions in aid to Israel 9/11 and all the other attacks by Al Queda would probably have never happened. Having troops stationed in Saudi Arabia is another big factor that pissed off Osama personally.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject:
ok, yes... but still. I defined culturally backward for you, right? Do you disagree now that the middle-east is culturally backward by my definition? _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 685 Status: User
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:18 am Post subject:
Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote:
ok, yes... but still. I defined culturally backward for you, right? Do you disagree now that the middle-east is culturally backward by my definition?
by your definition? That's no way to make an arguement.
....
By my definition, anybody who disagrees with me is wrong.
So, by my definition, you are wrong. Would you disagree with me that you are wrong by my definition?
I would say that maybe they're culturally behind but not backward. Backward implies that they're getting worse. I personally have just seen a lack of improvement.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:57 am Post subject:
ok, I'll take behind. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
That's true, but what can we do about it? Any efforts to bring aid to those people will probably be considered a threat by Kim, and then we'll suddenly be in another war. _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
Gender: Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 2136 Status: User
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject:
Hey, Sneak. There's a really good book on the subject of cultural advancement (who's got it, who doesn't, and why). It's called Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. You're absolutely correct: Africa, the Middle East, and other areas of the globe have lagged behind other areas, culturally and technologically, by a wide margin. Much of it boils down to geography and the allocation of natural resources.
For instance, how are Africans supposed to get up when the land they live on isn't suitable for farming? What comes forth is subsistence farming, and no ability to focus on anything greater than where the next meal is coming from.
What sort of natural resources are there in the middle east? Let's see... sand and oil. Until the industrial revolution in the ninteenth century, oil didn't have the overbearing importance that it does today. Plus, the oil industry is controlled by only a few families. None of the wealth gets passed on to the populace at large.
The perpetual violence that holds Africa and the Middle East back is a result of desperate, poverty-stricken times. You can see the same thing in inner-cities in the United States. The poverty and violence in these areas has been furthered by despot governments, but is essentially the result of a lack of natural resources.
Gender: Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 6077 Status: Moderator
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:07 am Post subject:
oh, okay.
thanks Dodge! _________________ Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
"The Chicken of Lust"
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