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Teffen
Never Knows Best
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 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Why?
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Its_The_Sneak!!!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Hooooomsar wrote: | | AH good idea. We should bend to the wills of the ignorant and extremists. Let's validate their beliefs! Whoo! |
No, that's not what it does. It lets the church decide while keeping the government seperate from the matter entirely.
And hey, if you don't make some concessions to extremists, what happens?
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Mavhunter
The Magical Mr. Ringo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Its_The_Sneak!!! wrote: | | Hooooomsar wrote: | | AH good idea. We should bend to the wills of the ignorant and extremists. Let's validate their beliefs! Whoo! |
No, that's not what it does. It lets the church decide while keeping the government seperate from the matter entirely.
And hey, if you don't make some concessions to extremists, what happens? |
You go moderate, which is what this past election was. 
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Hooooomsar
Class-hole
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Don't remind Dave that last election happened.
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Der
NO ROMAN ORGIES!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Mushroom Pie wrote: | | Rocky Sullivan wrote: | | marriage has existed since before certain religious texts were abused by certain people to represent their own beliefs, so frankly I see no problem in gay marriage. |
Yeah, but to my understanding, marriage has ALWAYS been a religious institution, be it Christianity or Paganism. |
I'd argue that you have a flawed or incomplete understanding of marriage. I'd elaborate, but I can't imagine anyone actually reading it.
Likewise, I think ITS's semantic argument isn't as diplomatic as he thinks it is. But again. . . who cares?
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the bunk
requiem for a bro
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
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america does, der.
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Hooooomsar
Class-hole
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:40 am Post subject: |
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I care.
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Homestarrunnernet
Wastrel.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Go go Der. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. |
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Its_The_Sneak!!!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Der wrote: | | Likewise, I think ITS's semantic argument isn't as diplomatic as he thinks it is. But again. . . who cares? |
No, I would like you to elaborate, please.
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Come into my den let me hear you cluck
You can be my hen and we can f(Bu-GAWK)
A bite to the leg, it's time to play
Baby, let me be your egg that needs to get laid.
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Mushroom Pie
Go, go, go Speed Racer!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Der wrote: | | Mushroom Pie wrote: | | Rocky Sullivan wrote: | | marriage has existed since before certain religious texts were abused by certain people to represent their own beliefs, so frankly I see no problem in gay marriage. |
Yeah, but to my understanding, marriage has ALWAYS been a religious institution, be it Christianity or Paganism. |
I'd argue that you have a flawed or incomplete understanding of marriage. I'd elaborate, but I can't imagine anyone actually reading it.
Likewise, I think ITS's semantic argument isn't as diplomatic as he thinks it is. But again. . . who cares? |
I'd read it, for what it's worth.
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Tsuta
the SockMaster
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Mushroom Pie wrote: | | Der wrote: | | Mushroom Pie wrote: | | Rocky Sullivan wrote: | | marriage has existed since before certain religious texts were abused by certain people to represent their own beliefs, so frankly I see no problem in gay marriage. |
Yeah, but to my understanding, marriage has ALWAYS been a religious institution, be it Christianity or Paganism. |
I'd argue that you have a flawed or incomplete understanding of marriage. I'd elaborate, but I can't imagine anyone actually reading it.
Likewise, I think ITS's semantic argument isn't as diplomatic as he thinks it is. But again. . . who cares? |
I'd read it, for what it's worth. |
I would too. Write it on out, Der!
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cow_with_gun
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Go for it, why not. If two people love each other, they should be able to.
If you are going by the strict definition of marriage. Then you should just go marry yourself. |
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Teffen
Never Knows Best
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Location: The question is not where, but when...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| cow_with_gun wrote: | | If you are going by the strict definition of marriage. Then you should just go marry yourself. |
If I do, will I get the benefits?
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What people are saying about Opera:
-Why would I want a browser about bad music?
-It's alright, I used once.
-Be quiet, your ruining my wedding.
-I give it 4 thumbs up.
-BLARG I HATE IE!
Critics are raving about Opera, get it now!
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Empy
Has just lost the game
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Location: Above whatever's below me.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I say let them.
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Der
NO ROMAN ORGIES!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Sigh. OK.
I can see how you could believe that marriage has always been a religious institution. We don't really practice pragmatic marriage; actually, we kind of find the idea ridiculous. So, from this angle, it's pretty easy to see marriage as some sort of institution that exists to make the relationship between two loving people sacred, and has always existed to do so. This misses the fact that marriage, in many societies and for a long time, has had a strong social aspect. The social ties that were created by marriage, either within or among groups, probably resulted in the desire to make these relationships into something sacred. I'm not sure what you meant by "always," but it wasn't always a religious institution, and even now is often really, or at least primarily, not a religious institution. I'd put more detail into this, but I don't have the energy right now.
In terms of what ITS is saying, I can understand why this kind of argument seems appealing. First, though, you have to admit that what you're really taking issue with is not the meaning of "marriage." If that were the case, the existence of common law marriage, or even of legal marriages in general that churches don't have to recognize, would have prompted you to appeal for a change in terminology. Whether or not you now advocate changing the meaning of those is irrelevant; clearly there is something about the "gay" in "gay marriage" that hits you in a way that the "marriage" in "common law marriage" does not. The alarmism of "They're going to force churches to accept gay marriage!" is beside the point and probably a gross overstatement. Really, the entire thing seems to be set up to dodge the point. What is it that bothers people about putting the words "gay" and "marriage" together that doesn't bother them about "gay civil union" or "common law marriage?" What is it that would still bother them about this even if your argument that churches would be forced to accept these unions turned out to be totally false? Why has the word "marriage" become more sacred than the institution, and, to add to that, why does the "sacred" nature of the word bar homosexuals from achieving this status? Renaming marriage doesn't solve the problem, it just shoves it aside. I anticipate that you'll disagree with me on most, if not all, of this, but what would life be without that?
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